SeasideKurt
Well-known member
First line of the second paragraph. We're working on suspicions then?
Vaccine Passports
- Thread starter TommyHutch
- Start date
First line of the second paragraph. We're working on suspicions then?
Adams Kebab
Well-known member
Just shows it up for the nonsense it is.
Ormergod
Well-known member
Enough reported suspicions for the MHRA to pause the vaccine rollout and investigate these deaths and huge number of adverse reactions reported.
Johnno
Well-known member
How come conspiracy theorists are happy to believe that ‘1400 deaths shortly after receiving the vaccine’ means they were all caused by the vaccine, but were up in arms about COVID being put on the death certificate of all those who died within 28 days of testing positive?
Typical nutters who twist every piece of data and deliberately omit any element of a report that proves them wrong.
Typical nutters who twist every piece of data and deliberately omit any element of a report that proves them wrong.
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
The bit he didn't quote: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...irus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting
The MHRA has received 460 UK reports of suspected ADRs to the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in which the patient died shortly after vaccination, 999 reports for the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, seven for the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna and 24 where the brand of vaccine was unspecified. The majority of these reports were in elderly people or people with underlying illness. Usage of the vaccines has increased over the course of the campaigns and as such, so has reporting of fatal events with a temporal association with vaccination however, this does not indicate a link between vaccination and the fatalities reported. Review of individual reports and patterns of reporting does not suggest the vaccines played a role in these deaths.
Ormergod
Well-known member
so how many of those deaths reported would you suggest have no connection to the injection the patient just received? All of them? How many of the 1,000,0000 reactions had no connection to the injection they just received? Thats 1,000,0000 reported reactions,quite a lot to dismiss any of those reports had anything to do with the injection. If even a fraction of those were connected to the injection then the MHRA should do their job,pause the vaccine rollout and investigate these reports before potentially damaging any more people.
I chair a group which scrutinises the vaccination programme in my locality. This includes any investigations into deaths which may be linked to the programme. There have been 6 cases locally and further investigations (including some through post mortem) have concluded that 4 were definitely not due to vaccination, but due to other medical issues or causes. The other 2 cases were inconclusive, so may or may not be linked to the vaccine. Even if you conclude those 2 were caused by the vaccination then this would equate to 0.0002% of the total vaccinations given locally. If you extrapolate to the vaccinations given nationally so far, it would equate to 166 deaths, assuming all were caused by the vaccine. Of course, there may be variations regionally, but that is based our extrapolating our local data.
Ormergod
Well-known member
works both ways. How come when somebody died after having a positive test they were recorded as a covid death but now all of a sudden when it comes to deaths after being vaccinated they use underlying illnesses as an excuse.
JJpool
Well-known member
I'm not denying there are some risks, but very low overall given the numbers who have had it.
How many people had the swine flu jab? Our whole countries population didn't.
Even if I take your 1500 ish deaths, let's say quite a few haven't come forward and call it 4,650.
There have been over 46,500,000 people had a dose.
If we work out the number of fatalities its approximately...
0.0001%
Thats not to dismiss any issues, as for the people it happens to its devastating but who knows how they might have reacted to covid.
On balance the risk is low for the numbers who have had it.
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
I wouldn't.
The MHRA on the other hand would suggest that the vast, vast majority are co-incidental rather than caused by the vaccination.
The vast majority are the minor side effects known to be associated with the vaccine, fever etc.
As to the rest, for AZ alone there's 35 pregnancies in there, 32 electric shocks, 569 cases of Covid-19 (22 fatal), 6,664 cases of influenza, 244 falls, 2 road traffic accidents, 52 cases of sunburn, 18 cases of "chest x-ray" and 4 of "computerised tomogram thorax"; 25 cases of people taking Covid tests, 93 of which were positive and 16 negative; 464 cases of arthritis, 5 cases of snoring, 1 homosexual parent, 5 retirements, 201 Covid-19 immunisations (under-reported I hope), 286 cases of "death", 285 of which were fatal, 187 hangovers and 1 dead pet.
Except for the Covid-19 immunisations I suspect the rest were entirely unrelated to the vaccine.
Adams Kebab
Well-known member
This is the point.
Vaccinated people are catching and spreading this virus, so can someone explain to me why vaccine passports are necessary?
Please don’t talk about a slightly reduced risk, that’s not a valid point due to the above.
Creating a two-tiered society based on that would be a disgrace.
The talk of passports isn’t to save lives or for your health.
Johnno
Well-known member
For a start, ‘recorded as a COVID death’ is another bit of an airy-fairy conspiracy statement. It’s been said countless times that ‘excess deaths’ is the only way to estimate the amount of deaths caused by COVID, and I stress the word estimate. It may well be mentioned on the death certificate that the person tested positive within 28 days prior to death, but no-one in their right mind would think that the government are trying to pass off traffic accident fatalities as a COVID death (which has been used as an example on many occasions).
The mentioning of a failed COVID test prior to death started at the very beginning of the outbreak, when no-one understood the virus, and as much data as possible was being gathered.
All my own opinion and interpretation of course, and your entitled to yours, but to interpret the yellow card data statement of ‘1400 deaths shortly after receiving the vaccine’ as meaning ‘caused’ by the vaccine is pure fiction.
Wizaard
Well-known member
Where are these stats coming from? Bit of a coincidence that you've found this.
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
Intersting article that shines some light on where anti-vax is coming from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-57928647
Essentially Russia/China want to use their vaccines as tools of international diplomacy, so anything that undermines trust in Western developed vaccines is a win for them.
Essentially Russia/China want to use their vaccines as tools of international diplomacy, so anything that undermines trust in Western developed vaccines is a win for them.
Wizaard
Well-known member
VAERS have been debunked by proper scientists as providing misleading statistics. I guessed it was this. Anti vaxx campaigners find deaths. What a surprise.
VAERS | Vaccine Safety | CDC
VAERS is the national vaccine safety monitoring system that accepts reports of adverse events after vaccination. The system can quickly detect potential safety issues with vaccines.www.cdc.gov
Wizaard
Well-known member
Quite. And the next post then provides a link to that source.
TwelveAngryMen
Well-known member
That's not strictly true as I would suggest virtually all had underlying health conditions and perhaps were even terminally ill already
The conclusions are
Conclusions There is little to suggest that there has been excess mortality during the period of lockdown. The apparent higher frequency of SARS-CoV-2-positive tests among children from black, Asian and minority ethnic groups is consistent with findings in adults. Ongoing surveillance is essential as the pandemic continues.
Do people think that the majority of people who haven't been vaccinated are anti vax conspiracy theorists?
Surely these people are a very small minority, has anybody met anyone in person who thinks Bill Gates is inserting nano technology into them through vaccines or that the new world order are making young women infertile to control population. I haven't.
All the people I have spoken to that haven't had it have made their decision for legitimate medical reasons, have had covid so deem it unnecessary or are reserving judgement because that's how their thought processes work or just think if it finishes me off so be it.
I think the media probably over exaggerate the crack pot, anti vax extremists.
Surely these people are a very small minority, has anybody met anyone in person who thinks Bill Gates is inserting nano technology into them through vaccines or that the new world order are making young women infertile to control population. I haven't.
All the people I have spoken to that haven't had it have made their decision for legitimate medical reasons, have had covid so deem it unnecessary or are reserving judgement because that's how their thought processes work or just think if it finishes me off so be it.
I think the media probably over exaggerate the crack pot, anti vax extremists.
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rockontommy
Guest
Exactly. It is a political tactic as old as time - misrepresent your opponents as fringe/unwell. It does make you wonder what exactly is being taught in schools when you've even got schoolteachers parroting this shit.
Johnno
Well-known member
One of my mates believes all that shit. It does my head in, I seriously think it’s a mental health issue.
He also believes that the test that’s rammed up your nose has something on it designed to cause brain cancer, as a means towards population control.
In all other respects, he’s a great lad, but I’ve watched him fall deeper and deeper into the conspiracy networks over the past 5 or so years, and it’s very worrying.
Thats a shame but I do think they are a small minority of people so herd immunity should be possible without them.
So why go to the bother of vaccine passports?, that is an element of government control that I am totally against.
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rockontommy
Guest
Ormergod
Well-known member
its all government data. Vaers is the national reporting system in America. Yellow card reporting is available on gov.uk for United Kingdom. I provided links. Im hardly looking for deaths,the government publish them.
I agree they provide misleading statements by the way as the figures are likely ten times the number of what has been reported.
Here is MHRA telling us two years ago that only 10% of serious reactions are reported and between 2-4% of non serious reactions are reported
So you could going off what the MHRA tell us apply that 10% to the current serious reports.
Wizzerboy
Well-known member
I'll watch it later
JJpool
Well-known member
People jabbed are less likely to catch it and if infected it should lessen the amount of virus they emit. So a room of people all vaccinated should be pretty safe.
But if they wanted the safest way... thats to get people to test. You know then if you've got it.
That from a safety view is better with most also having had the jabs as well.
A vaccine passpprt is a bit of a daft idea and will give some a false sense of security whereas a test would tell you there and then.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
I downloaded one yesterday. Their's a domestic one and an international one.
The domestic is supposed to last a month (although when I downloaded it gave me an almost immediate expry date????) so you need to keep refreshing it and yes you do get a QR code.
You can keep it in your NHS app which is different from your Covid 19 tracker app (or even just print it off).
I did try and download the international one but that's a lot less staightforward. You need to photograph yourself and then do a face scan (which didn't work) or a video. The video didn't recognise my photo. Gave up then.
Yes I’ve just been through the same rigmarole. My expiry date is two days time so Mrs Mex is currently telling me I’ve done something wrong and am an idiot.I also went through the process with the photo and the video because she told me I had to (and then admitted she hadn’t done it and didn’t think it was sensible to have so much info on your phone!!!!). I now have to wait for 24 hours for acceptance apparently.
Meanwhile I’m going to make a brew in an attempt to calm down and contemplate how IT was meant to make life simpler.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
COVID-19: Michael Gove drops strong hint that vaccine passports will be needed for football matches
Michael Gove says it is his view that "some form of certification is the right way to go" and that "selfish" individuals who refuse to get a COVID-19 jab face being denied entry to some events.
S
Scaramanga
Guest
Adams Kebab
Well-known member
Michael Gove is a Chelsea fan. Funny that.
I only know he’s a Chelsea fan as he went to the Champs League final and then invented the scheme where he could avoid self isolation.
Him calling people selfish is like Owen Oyston telling men to respect women.
I only know he’s a Chelsea fan as he went to the Champs League final and then invented the scheme where he could avoid self isolation.
Him calling people selfish is like Owen Oyston telling men to respect women.
Qblock
Well-known member
Well if Michael Gove thinks I’m selfish get me to the clinic pronto.COVID-19: Michael Gove drops strong hint that vaccine passports will be needed for football matches
Michael Gove says it is his view that "some form of certification is the right way to go" and that "selfish" individuals who refuse to get a COVID-19 jab face being denied entry to some events.www.google.co.uk
Those tactics will achieve nothing
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rockontommy
Guest
What makes you think the PM doesn't want them? He keeps refloating the idea - even after it has been killed off a number of times? Genuine question as I can't work him out.
Article in DM today but he does change his mind on most things from Brexit to Lockdowns at least once so it could change tomorrow!!
Sorry Guardian not DM, I read both for a bit of balance!!
And it wasn't a straight answer which is par for the course for him, but he wouldn't back Gove up on the comments he made yesterday.
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rockontommy
Guest
Yep - weird. He's the most authoritarian libertarian of all time
Which makes me think he tries to please everyone as he needs to be loved and ends up with no clear vision or plan for anything!!
Not a suitable personality to be PM, better to have a Thatcher or a Putin in many respects, you might hate them and they might be wrong but at least they get you to a destination.
With Johnson you could set off on a trip to Aberdeen and end up in Plymouth!!
They work up to a point but not enough to justify a passport, in order to justify that they would have to be a true vaccine like polio or small pox and not something similar to a flu jab.