Lost Seasider
Well-known member
There are no good outcomes, what is your least bad one?And someone who can suggest the extermination/expulsion of an entire race/people as the solution has lost his moral compass. The end.
There are no good outcomes, what is your least bad one?And someone who can suggest the extermination/expulsion of an entire race/people as the solution has lost his moral compass. The end.
Not the ones you’re proposing.There are no good outcomes, what is your least bad one?
What are the alternatives?Not the ones you’re proposing.
As I said about a thousand posts ago - I dunno.What are the alternatives?
If you took the time to watch the Daniel Levy interview I posted, it's clear that some moderate, educated Jews don't squarely lay the blame at the door of Hamas. They look at their own failures and the oppression of other people as the back drop. He also scoffs as fake anti semitism that is promoted by the current Israeli govt and undermines real anti semitism.mmm...pretty much stating the obvious. Think it was said on here a while back that the longer the war went on it was inevitable that Israel would start to lose support. But it's two totally different things between "losing support" and thinking that there's ever gonna be some sort of long term actions taking against Israel for a war Hamas started. Ooops yes, we keep coming back to that key point don't we. A war started by Hamas.
but have i said anything different to that? It seems pretty obvious Netanyahu is leading a divided country.If you took the time to watch the Daniel Levy interview I posted, it's clear that some moderate, educated Jews don't squarely lay the blame at the door of Hamas. They look at their own failures and the oppression of other people as the back drop. He also scoffs as fake anti semitism that is promoted by the current Israeli govt and undermines real anti semitism.
If people like Levy say it I'm sure many other Jewish people agree. It's also encouraging that he doesn't prescribe to the destruction of palestine, Netanyahu is backing himself into a bad corner here and I personally think it's only a matter of time before his premiership is over.
You're not listening, the Israelis have been pursuing a two-state solution for the past 30 years or so, it fails every time for one very simple reason, the Palestinians will never accept a two-state solution.As I said about a thousand posts ago - I dunno.
The Two State solution, with all its problems and obstacles, seems the best to me. If there’s goodwill to progress the negotiations. On both sides. Which is sadly lacking currently. On both sides. That wasn’t always the case. As history proves. Rabin. Arafat. Etc.
That is a solution, it might be a bad one, but from a limited menu of bad solutions it might not be the worst, and could potentially be structured in a way to benefit the Palestinians.But accepting there may be no solution is not the same as acceptingannihilation/ethnic cleansing is the solution. No solution means just that.
There is a crucial difference, I am trying to think about what's best for the Palestinian people, and the status-quo may not be that.And by the way. If you’re seriously advocating the destruction of the Palestinian people as a real choice then really you’re no different to Hamas and all those you despise. Who advocate the destruction of Israel.
No you’re not listening. The Israelis have been frustrating a two state solution for at least the last 20 years. Hamas may not agree to a two state solution but Fatah have. The past offers some hope. Even the present offers some hope. Netanyahu and Hamas have had dialogue and negotiations re the hostages/Palestian detainees. A thin sliver I agree. But a sliver of hope nonetheless. They can negotiate if they have to.You're not listening, the Israelis have been pursuing a two-state solution for the past 30 years or so, it fails every time for one very simple reason, the Palestinians will never accept a two-state solution.
That is a solution, it might be a bad one, but from a limited menu of bad solutions it might not be the worst, and could potentially be structured in a way to benefit the Palestinians.
So we're back to the same fundamental question, what is the least bad outcome?
There is a crucial difference, I am trying to think about what's best for the Palestinian people, and the status-quo may not be that.
Yes you categorically blame hamas 100%. He didn'tbut have i said anything different to that? It seems pretty obvious Netanyahu is leading a divided country.
no, it's clear that many Jewish/Israeli people don't like Netanyahu and will be highly critical of his actions and his failures. Does that mean it's incorrect to say Hamas didn't start the war?. I blame Hamas 100% for starting the war. Not for events and actions that preceded it. Big difference.Yes you categorically blame hamas 100%. He didn't
I'm not sure how you separate actions preceding 7/10 from the current t conflict, it's a naive take in my opinion. Nor do many moderate American jews who are appalled by Netanyahu.no, it's clear that many Jewish/Israeli people don't like Netanyahu and will be highly critical of his actions and his failures. Does that mean it's incorrect to say Hamas didn't start the war?. I blame Hamas 100% for starting the war. Not for events and actions that preceded it. Big difference.
did the actions or words of Netanyahu warrant the events that happened on 7/10?I'm not sure how you separate actions preceding 7/10 from the current t conflict, it's a naive take in my opinion. Nor do many moderate American jews who are appalled by Netanyahu.
Deflect if you want, in the eyes of moderate jews they can understand why it happened.did the actions or words of Netanyahu warrant the events that happened on 7/10?
no deflection at all. Assume you won't give a definitive yes or no. Yet here you are NOW calling for a humanitarian ceasefire so the two sides can get together to try and find a way to resolve this crisis. Do you think events of 7/10 have helped the situation?Seems to me you are approving of the events of 7/10 because it puts Netanyahu more in the spotlight.Deflect if you want, in the eyes of moderate jews they can understand why it happened.
I see Russia has carried out its biggest bombardment yet in this war 110 missiles fired on 6 Ukrainian cities overnight killing 12 civilian people and injuring at least 60 with numbers expected to rise.
Now I know it’s not quite on the scale of the war in Gaza as regards civilians being killed but why aren’t we that bothered about civilians being killed by Putin in this war as we no longer have threads about it so do we just accept it now as Gaza has taken over?
It’s not a dig by at anyone by the way it’s a simple question?
I think it's probably because everyone is in agreement over the Ukraine war and are united in their support of Ukraine and their disgust at Putin's behaviour.I see Russia has carried out its biggest bombardment yet in this war 110 missiles fired on 6 Ukrainian cities overnight killing 12 civilian people and injuring at least 60 with numbers expected to rise.
Now I know it’s not quite on the scale of the war in Gaza as regards civilians being killed but why aren’t we that bothered about civilians being killed by Putin in this war as we no longer have threads about it so do we just accept it now as Gaza has taken over?
It’s not a dig by at anyone by the way it’s a simple question?
Agree.Hezbollah are just biding their time
Usual Russian sabre rattling, ignore.Ukraine has hit back at Russia after their massive bombing by bombing inside Russia. Russia have said they will retaliate, this looks like a major escalation, given the west have said that they’re supplying weapons on the understanding they won’t be used to target Russian territory.
It’s ok for Russia to kill Ukrainian civilians but as soon as Russian civilians are killed Russia calls it barbaric.Usual Russian sabre rattling, ignore.
No. China and Russia are temporarily aligned but far from friends and also far more concerned about their domestic economies surviving the next 2 years. UAE vs Iran vs Egypt want completely different outcomes in the Middle East.Is the world order changing?, the west has dominated for decades, but it seems to me that the balance of influence is changing. The Brics organisation which has both China and Russia as members, now welcomes Ethiopia, Saudi Arabia , Egypt, Iran and the UAE to its ranks. That’s a powerful grouping and the collective west will have to up its game.
That’s just shocking it really is.Part of the reason why so many "children" are being killed: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/04/children-tunnels-arm-hamas-israel-gaza/
Footage of children inside Hamas tunnels stretching under Gaza has been released by Israel, which claimed the terror group was using minors to “deliver ammunition”.
A small group of young boys can be seen walking through a subterranean structure in the clip, published by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) on Thursday, towards what appears to be a heavily armed Hamas terrorist.
“Children are sent to the battlefields after an attack in order to assess the damage and report it to the terrorists who are hiding in shelters,” the IDF added.
Special Hamas-run camps also teach children how to “shoot weapons, attack from a tunnel, fight against tanks and kidnap soldiers”, the IDF told Fox News on Wednesday.
but in the eyes of some on here all these deaths in Gaza are Israels fault.Part of the reason why so many "children" are being killed: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/04/children-tunnels-arm-hamas-israel-gaza/
Footage of children inside Hamas tunnels stretching under Gaza has been released by Israel, which claimed the terror group was using minors to “deliver ammunition”.
A small group of young boys can be seen walking through a subterranean structure in the clip, published by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) on Thursday, towards what appears to be a heavily armed Hamas terrorist.
“Children are sent to the battlefields after an attack in order to assess the damage and report it to the terrorists who are hiding in shelters,” the IDF added.
Special Hamas-run camps also teach children how to “shoot weapons, attack from a tunnel, fight against tanks and kidnap soldiers”, the IDF told Fox News on Wednesday.
Batten down the hatches everyone it looks like we’re about to make some sort of military strike against the Houthi rebels.
The Falklands victory won Iron Maggie a second term in office but like then needs must I afraid.When the Torys are in trouble you can rely on them to start a military conflict to raise the ratings in the polls.
That is one of the most stupid posts ever on this board in a history of many whoppers. Now I don't rate the Tories, but that comment of yours is just bullshit.When the Torys are in trouble you can rely on them to start a military conflict to raise the ratings in the polls.
That is one of the most stupid posts ever on this board in a history of many whoppers. Now I don't rate the Tories, but that comment of yours is just bullshit.
Because if it is ignored then the movement of oil and gas will be stopped and we, and the rest of the Western world will have massive oil and gas price rises and it will massively hurt our economy and those of the the other countries, in tandem with what Russia are doing and the economy will be absolutely fucked again just as it was starting to ease, prices will rise, inflation will rise and people will lose their jobs.So why does the UK have to get involved if it's not for potential political gain, we can't even manage to patrol the waters off our coast successfully. We should remain neutral like France and Germany.
These kind of articles pop up all the time.Worrying View attachment 17984
LEL, they can't even take a country 1/3 their size armed with second hand weapons, what are their chances against first-rate military powers?Worrying View attachment 17984
A lot of Ukraines hardware were ex soviet tanks and aircraft not the best to be honest renowned for breaking down.LEL, they can't even take a country 1/3 their size armed with second hand weapons, what are their chances against first-rate military powers?
I've largely stayed out of this albeit I've been tempted to take you up on some of your posts. You talk about other posters' naivety and yet you seem to believe that "it's a war Israel will win." I don't see anybody winning this war. This conflict has taken the irresolvable political, ethnic and religious issues in the Middle East to a higher and ever more dangerous level. When Israel reach the point of withdrawing its military from Gaza not one of the these issues will have been resolved. Many, many people will have died, livelihoods will have been lost, homes destroyed and the combatants' beliefs hardened. Iran will have become the host provider of arms to all anti-Israeli terrorist organisations in the area. Lebanon's stance against the Israeli occupation of the West Bank will have hardened. Nothing approaching a win for anyone will have come out of this.yes i agree but here's the difference. It's a war Hamas cannot win whereas it's a war Israel will win. So it's Hamas that is prolonging the war and bringing unnecessary death and suffering to those innocent people of Gaza. And as i think you've perhaps already said, Hamas care little for the people of Gaza and the effect they are having on the nation..
Those checks cause delay to the point where supplies don't get through, especially if the checking authority is being deliberately awkward.But are those checks actually stopping Aid getting thru into Gaza? I think it reasonable that Israel has the right to carry out some form of checks but once that is done then there shouldn't be a problem. And I really don't get your point about the UN debating it. Has Israel said that the supply of aid has always been unlimited and unrestricted? Of course it hasn't because it clearly wasn't.
It's the way news works. They've moved on from Ukraine, and possibly the politicians will follow, reducing support. That's what Putin wants, hence his backing of trouble in Gaza etc. Deflect.I see Russia has carried out its biggest bombardment yet in this war 110 missiles fired on 6 Ukrainian cities overnight killing 12 civilian people and injuring at least 60 with numbers expected to rise.
Now I know it’s not quite on the scale of the war in Gaza as regards civilians being killed but why aren’t we that bothered about civilians being killed by Putin in this war as we no longer have threads about it so do we just accept it now as Gaza has taken over?
It’s not a dig by at anyone by the way it’s a simple question?
yes,that's some valid points. But it's a fact Hamas started this war, it's a fact Hamas wanted this war, it's a fact that an overwhelming majority of the people of Gaza support this war and so then it's reasonable to think that they knew that any response from Israel would sadly likely lead to heavy casualties, It's a fact that Hezbollah support this war, it's a fact that the Houthis in Yemen, so basically Yemen support this war, it's a fact that Iran back this war. So where does that leave us? As you rightly say, a massive escalation of the situation in the middle east. I'm sure you/we can agree on all that.I've largely stayed out of this albeit I've been tempted to take you up on some of your posts. You talk about other posters' naivety and yet you seem to believe that "it's a war Israel will win." I don't see anybody winning this war. This conflict has taken the irresolvable political, ethnic and religious issues in the Middle East to a higher and ever more dangerous level. When Israel reach the point of withdrawing its military from Gaza not one of the these issues will have been resolved. Many, many people will have died, livelihoods will have been lost, homes destroyed and the combatants' beliefs hardened. Iran will have become the host provider of arms to all anti-Israeli terrorist organisations in the area. Lebanon's stance against the Israeli occupation of the West Bank will have hardened. Nothing approaching a win for anyone will have come out of this.
Within a decade apparantly, but that’s only guesswork and only a possibility.Worrying comments by the military chairman of NATO, saying civilians in the west need to prepare for war with Russia.