War again

gjr said:
The worse the treatment of the people in Gaza and the West Bank then obviously support for extreme organisations will increase.
I still maintain that the majority of people the world over want to live peacefully but people focus disproportionately on the very small, violent minority.
The leaders of Hamas will almost certainly have used the attack in October to elicit the response that Israel have given because they are extremist psychopaths but the majority of the people that voted for them arent although Israel has definitely created more that will be in the future.
A two state solution is the only answer, unfortunately the extremists on both sides make this unlikely to happen and all the time people with no power or extreme views or actions suffer and die.
Click to expand...
yes i can agree with that only adding that the majority of the Gazan people are in favour of armed conflict and have been for some time.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
So if the current strategy is intelligence led and targeted, as you claim, why is the US Defence Secretary calling for a more intelligence led and targeted approach? Does he not know what he’s talking about? And why are the former U.K. defence secretary and other senior politicians talking about indiscriminate bombing?

As for the nonsense about “bringing U.K. politics into it” as I’ve already explained, it’s relevant because it shows the concerns about the Israeli tactics are widespread across the political spectrum. Criticism of Israel is not somehow extremist or outrageous. It’s widepsread.

And I see Jaffa has popped up again with the claim that if you’re critical of Israel you’re somehow pro Hamas. Although you claimed that had never happened.
Click to expand...
nope, you made a specific comment about me and talking as if there was a red/blue divide on this topic. There isn't. And of course the more intelligence Israel have hopefully the better their targets will be but surely it's easier to say than do. Even you must acknowledge that because suely you cannot think that their intelligence has such finite details of all the tunnels, where their command centres all are, where their storage bases for weapons are and many other stuff requiring intelligence. The US which you base your whole point on should have their intelligence sources but it's easy to talk the talk about how it all should work or pan out but situations like this can't always be about talking the talk. Sometimes walking the walk is inevitable. Meanwhile Hamas and others are continuing to fire rockets into Israel and their fighters in Gaza still confronting Israeli troops. Surely you must agree that within Gaza itself, Hamas cannot win this war and for the sake of stopping more and more people being killed their fighters should cease fighting and either surrender or try and integrate back into the population. Bring an end to this war so Gaza can be rebuilt and we can try and move to a more permanent peaceful solution. But it seems that is something Hamas are not interested in.
 
20togo said:
So a Hamas supporter has to be an adult male? That's a pretty big assumption. And see my point about the ideology of Hamas and the indoctrination that perhaps so many children grow up with.
Click to expand...
I didn't assume a Hamas supporter had to be an adult male. I was questioning the figures you use to justify killing of civilians in Gaza.

You've dodged the questions and changed the subject again, it's impossible to have a straightforward exchange with you so I'll leave it there.
 
Sven said:
I didn't assume a Hamas supporter had to be an adult male. I was questioning the figures you use to justify killing of civilians in Gaza.

You've dodged the questions and changed the subject again, it's impossible to have a straightforward exchange with you so I'll leave it there.
Click to expand...
i didn't dodge anything. I based my post on exactly what you asked. If they support armed conflict then i'd guess that includes terrorist attacks. And it's not me who conducts these polls it's the Palestinian Authority so if you've got any issues with their figures and how they are doing them then i suggest you take it up with them.
 
Last edited:
In a statement, Hamas said:

There is a Palestinian national decision that there should be no talk about prisoners or exchange deals except after a full cessation of aggression."

So are Hamas not interested in ending this war or the Palestinians in Gaza themselves? It doesn't make for good reading.Maybe that doesn't suit @Sven narrative.
 
20togo said:
In a statement, Hamas said:

There is a Palestinian national decision that there should be no talk about prisoners or exchange deals except after a full cessation of aggression."

So are Hamas not interested in ending this war or the Palestinians in Gaza themselves? It doesn't make for good reading.Maybe that doesn't suit @Sven narrative.
Click to expand...
We're taking Hamas statements seriously now are we? That's a change in position from you and @Lost Seasider
 
Mexboroseasider said:
According to Sky the IDF are now “detaining” doctors and other medical staff en masse.

So who will treat the children who survived the initial bombing and artillery/tank attacks? Why can’t they be taken the short distance over the border with Gaza into Israel? And treated in those hospitals? Or wouldn’t those pictures go down well?
Click to expand...
Why aren't they being evacuated into Egypt, a fellow Arab nation?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
TBH the mistake some posters have made it to equate any criticism of Israel and the current IDF actions in Gaza with a pro Hamas viewpoint and/or antisemitism.

That’s why the thread keeps going round in circles without making any progress. Which frankly is not dissimilar to the whole Israel/Palestine debate since the late 1940s.
Click to expand...
I think you can take it back to the Crusades actually.

There's no way out of it, as both sides are completely hell bent on annihilating the other and won't stop until that's the case.
 
Wizaard said:
Why aren't they being evacuated into Egypt, a fellow Arab nation?
Click to expand...
Because, even though it’s in Egypt, Israel effectively control the Rafah crossing. To be fair I think there was a handful of premature babies and kids who needed treatment for cancer who were allowed across, but if you Google it that doesn’t seem to have happened since November. Obviously with the relentless bombing things have got considerably worse since then.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Because, even though it’s in Egypt, Israel effectively control the Rafah crossing. To be fair I think there was a handful of premature babies and kids who needed treatment for cancer who were allowed across, but if you Google it that doesn’t seem to have happened since November. Obviously with the relentless bombing things have got considerably worse since then.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the explanation.
 
Wizaard said:
Thanks for the explanation.
Click to expand...
There’s hope that the UN Security Council may pass a binding resolution in the next few hours to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza. Maybe that’ll also allow injured to come the other way?

There have been intense negotiations over the last few days to avoid the US exercising its veto as they have done previously. At the moment that’s the only hopeful sign I can see on the horizon.

This is where we’re at as of about an hour ago.

US says it is ready to support amended UN resolution aimed at boosting aid to Gaza | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian

It was not clear whether other security council members, particularly Russia, would accept the changes when the vote takes place on Friday
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com
 
Last edited:
Matesrates said:
The UN is a useless organisation, neither Israel or Hamas will listen. Empty words.
Click to expand...
I know what you mean. But unless nations voted to give it real power (which they won’t do) then that’s inevitable surely?

But it’s still a good measure of the general temperature across the planet. The non binding General Assembly Resolution a couple of weeks ago called for a ceasefire. The vote in favour was 153. The vote against was only 10. There were 23 abstentions. So only 10 nations across almost 200 supported Israel. Which gives you a good idea of the feelings across the world about how Israel has conducted itself. And makes a nonsense of the “criticism of Israel is a vote for Hamas”.

The Security Council is more difficult as the permanent members have a veto. And the US is known for vetoing resolutions that don’t favour Israel. Hence all the diplomatic negotiations. And on this occasion they haven’t. Which may be sending a message by the US to Israel to rein in the indiscriminate bombing. Or it may be so watered down as to be totally ineffectual.

Time will tell. And whether or not food, water and medical supplies start to cross into Gaza will also tell.
 
20togo said:
can you show me evidence to back up your claim? But hey you deflect from what i posted which pretty much is an uncomfortable truth for you.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty certain you questioned Hamas death figures, I can't be arsed looking but I’ll play your silly game now.....
You are an islamaphobe who is a fan of Douglas Murray.
 
Shandypants said:
I'm pretty certain you questioned Hamas death figures, I can't be arsed looking but I’ll play your silly game now.....
You are an islamaphobe who is a fan of Douglas Murray.
Click to expand...
There is a suspicion that it’s not so much pro Israel as anti Muslim with some posters.

Which is ironic given that both religions originated in what we now call the Middle East.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
There is a suspicion that it’s not so much pro Israel as anti Muslim with some posters.

Which is ironic given that both religions originated in what we now call the Middle East.
Click to expand...
So how many western or Israeli terrorist’s do you see causing carnage around the world?
I’m happy to list every terrorist act over the last 20 years carried out by Jihadi terrorists if you want me to?

Ps
Might take me some time mind as there’s so many.
 
Shandypants said:
I'm pretty certain you questioned Hamas death figures, I can't be arsed looking but I’ll play your silly game now.....
You are an islamaphobe who is a fan of Douglas Murray.
Click to expand...
don't think I have, my comments on the death figures were based around what i thought was a [low] disproportionate number of men killed in the total figure. Not queried the actual total. It's since been pointed out to me the actual number of children in Gaza amounts to something like 50% which I've since acknowledged. And i honestly don't have a clue who is Douglas Murray is so I can't be a fan. And I'm certainly not bothered to look up who he is either.

Call me an Islamaphobe if you wish although I doubt you'll find any evidence to back that up. On the other hand you've always been posting on here with your far left wing views and anti semetism has existed in the far left views for many many years. Coincidence?
 
Last edited:
Mexboroseasider said:
There is a suspicion that it’s not so much pro Israel as anti Muslim with some posters.

Which is ironic given that both religions originated in what we now call the Middle East.
Click to expand...
Aye its a clear as the nose on your face. They aren't a great fan of jewish people or israel they detest Muslims.
 
Shandypants said:
Aye its a clear as the nose on your face. They aren't a great fan of jewish people or israel they detest Muslims.
Click to expand...
I can only speak for myself here but those comments are just pathetic.

I detest any group who carries out terrorist acts but the facts are plain to see like on 07/10/23 and 11/09/01 two of the biggest losses of life in history carried out by Jihadi terrorists.

It just so happens 99.9% of such atrocities around the world are carried out by jihadi’s of Muslim religion.

Sorry I can’t say it any other way to make it any easier for your nose to see that.

As I keep saying truth is a bitch at times.
 
Last edited:
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I can only speak for myself here but those comments are just pathetic.

I detest any group who carries out terrorist acts but the facts are plain to see like on 07/10/23 and 11/09/01 two of the biggest losses of life in history carried out by Jihadi terrorists.

It just so happens 99.9% of such atrocities around the world are carried out by jihadi’s of Muslim religion.

Sorry I can’t say it any other way to make it any easier for your nose to see that.

As I keep saying truth is a bitch at times.
Click to expand...
99.9% of your statistics are bollox
 
Shandypants said:
99.9% of your statistics are bollox
Click to expand...
Yer ok.

Want a game of naming terrorist atrocities around the world you name the non Jihadi ones I’ll name the Jihadi ones let’s see who wins eh?

Ps
Will take me much longer than you so might not get my list done till tomorrow but I’m still up for it deal?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
For brevity please refer to previous posts. You might want to focus on those from Jaffa in the last 30 minutes or so.
Click to expand...
Jaffa is still waiting to play his little game any chance of giving your mate a nudge or shall I stand down for the night assuming he’s not going to play?
Only I’m trying to watch Villa v the Blades.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
For brevity please refer to previous posts. You might want to focus on those from Jaffa in the last 30 minutes or so.
Click to expand...
If you've got issues with Jaffa then they are your problems and have nothing to do with me. I get the impression that somehow you believe you are a peacekeeper of the world and seem to have all the answers. Now that is manufactured outrage.
 
Last edited:
20togo said:
If you've got issues with Jaffa then they are your problems and have nothing to do with me. I get the impression that somehow you believe you are a peacekeeper of the world and seem to have all the answers. Now that is manufactured outrage.
Click to expand...
You asked a question and I gave you an answer.

Simples.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Jaffa is still waiting to play his little game any chance of giving your mate a nudge or shall I stand down for the night assuming he’s not going to play?
Only I’m trying to watch Villa v the Blades.
Click to expand...
Unlike you and other posters I’m not exchanging private messages all the time.

So you enjoy your match and respond to posts as you feel you need to.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Unlike you and other posters I’m not exchanging private messages all the time.

So you enjoy your match and respond to posts as you feel you need to.
Click to expand...
who is the opening line aimed at?

And as for why the thread was temporary closed, I really don't get that. Who did the admin think was that irate they needed to calm down? i find it pretty easy to remain calm whilst making my points If I didn't I'd have packed in reading this board many years ago. And I asked a question because the point you made had nothing to do with me even though your reply was adressed to me. And a post of one line talking about Jews and noses, of course it was deliberate.

Have a nice day and hope for three points.
 
20togo said:
who is the opening line aimed at?

And as for why the thread was temporary closed, I really don't get that. Who did the admin think was that irate they needed to calm down? i find it pretty easy to remain calm whilst making my points If I didn't I'd have packed in reading this board many years ago. And I asked a question because the point you made had nothing to do with me even though your reply was adressed to me. And a post of one line talking about Jews and noses, of course it was deliberate.

Have a nice day and hope for three points.
Click to expand...
Totally agree 20’s.

If you can’t have a debate without using insulting/vulgar words you shouldn’t be posting.

We all have different opinions on this terrible war but let’s keep it clean eh.
 
20togo said:
who is the opening line aimed at?

And as for why the thread was temporary closed, I really don't get that. Who did the admin think was that irate they needed to calm down? i find it pretty easy to remain calm whilst making my points If I didn't I'd have packed in reading this board many years ago. And I asked a question because the point you made had nothing to do with me even though your reply was adressed to me. And a post of one line talking about Jews and noses, of course it was deliberate.

Have a nice day and hope for three points.
Click to expand...
I don’t know who the Mod’s remarks were directed at, although I could hazard a guess

IMO Shandy’s comment wasn’t antisemitic, either deliberately or in any other way. I think you played that card, and manufactured outrage, because you were losing the wider debate. And you do have a tendency to do that. You accused me of bringing U.K. politics into it and trying to create a right/left divide when I was doing no such thing. And you knew that. It’s one of your tactics. Create an argument about something else to distract from the main topic.

Anyway, I’ve broken my self imposed rule of trying not to comment on the politics side on match days, so I’ll leave it at that.

UTMP and 🤞 for three points.
 
Sooty59 said:
You've taken a line out of what I posted & used it out of context. I can't be bothered arguing with people like you.
Click to expand...
It was the key line, and I didn't see anything else in the post that changed the context.

Was there anything in your post that would make 7/10 go away?
 
20togo said:
who is the opening line aimed at?

And as for why the thread was temporary closed, I really don't get that. Who did the admin think was that irate they needed to calm down? i find it pretty easy to remain calm whilst making my points If I didn't I'd have packed in reading this board many years ago. And I asked a question because the point you made had nothing to do with me even though your reply was adressed to me. And a post of one line talking about Jews and noses, of course it was deliberate.

Have a nice day and hope for three points.
Click to expand...
I think you're the only one coming to that conclusion. It seems to be trait of yours.
Not sure why I'm bothering, but for the record I can categorically state that it hadn't even entered my head. If it was intentional I wouldn't hide the fact....
 
Shandypants said:
I think you're the only one coming to that conclusion. It seems to be trait of yours.
Not sure why I'm bothering, but for the record I can categorically state that it hadn't even entered my head. If it was intentional I wouldn't hide the fact....
Click to expand...
If i was the only one, I don't think I'd have got the three thumbs up to my post. There is plenty of other terms or phrases you could have used. You just somehow managed to use that one.

Anyway, this isn't about us, it should be about the terrible events happening in Gaza and both sides need to find some way to bring the war to an end asap.
 
Last edited:
20togo said:
If i was the only one, I don't think I'd have got the three thumbs up to my post. There is plenty of other terms or phrases you could have used. You just somehow managed to use that one.

Anyway, this isn't about us, it should be about the terrible events happening in Gaza and both sides need to find some way to bring the war to an end asap.
Click to expand...
No I agree it isn't about us but I'm categorical I didn't mean it that way. Anyway have a good Christmas, I'm out.
 
We might have different opinions on what is going on in Gaza right now and how it came about but at the end of the day we all want this terrible war to stop.

Far too many civilians have suffered especially the children many too young to understand why it’s happening and why their parents are being killed.

It’s especially sad to see the suffering at Christmas time when we as Christian’s are celebrating in so many different ways.

Let’s hope and pray a permanent solution is reached soon and puts an end to this war.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top