Abu Dhabi GP

For anyone who says it was much better that the race was ended in a one lap duel, than behind the safety car, they are talking crap!!

As soon as the safety car pulled in, there was only going to be one winner - they may as well have handed it the Championship to Max at that point!! I'm not a big gambler but If I'd got £10,000 in my Befair Account at the start of the last lap. it would have all gone on Verstappen to win without hestitation (rather than the £30 I did manage to put on).

The argument as well that the Race Director can decide what he wants to do, even if it's gainst the rules is unbelieveable.

F1 is now a laughing stock!!
 
tangerine_neil said:
The rules are there for a reason. The second the Race Director starts to make up rules on the fly, with a huge advantage to Red Bull team & driver, the legal challenges and repercussions will rumble on for months.
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They've been making it up as they go along all season it's aways someone's interpretation they did it last race even at the start of this when ex World champions couldn't agree if Lewis should give the place up or not.

That's a hollow victory for Max as no way should he have won that race and then the title.
 
F1 is very insular, Masi isn't part of the club, he doesn't have the authority with the team leaders that Whiting had to just tell them to shut up and what I say goes, Masi has been dominated by Red Bull and to a lesser extent Mercedes all season. All this bargaining nonsense just isn't the right way to run a race.
 
I’m going to calm down. I expect there will be a joint winner announced this year. Mercedes’ legal team will have a field day. Might take a few weeks but anyone who bet on Hamilton needs to keep their slips imo
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
F1 is very insular, Masi isn't part of the club, he doesn't have the authority with the team leaders that Whiting had to just tell them to shut up and what I say goes, Masi has been dominated by Red Bull and to a lesser extent Mercedes all season. All this bargaining nonsense just isn't the right way to run a race.
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Masi has been rubbish since moving to PSG... oh, erm...
 
I cannot believe there is anyone still defending this tbh (mostly on social media tbf). Even Verstappen fans know deep down that this was wrong on every level. What I want from any sport is to see someone win fair and square and within the rules, regardless of the spectacle. The spectacle of it is totally secondary, and great if it's thrilling but a bit of a shame if it's not.

The argument over what the teams did or didn't do is irrelevant - how can you make a strategic decision if you don't know whether the rules will be applied or not. Utterly appalling. Someone on twitter has been arguing that the race director has the power to overrule the rules! I don't know if that's the case but what utter nonsense if it was - why bother having any rules in the first place? It's not Masi's place to make the rules, it's only to enforce the rules. That's it. It's not at his discretion. Even the FIA will know this was wrong, and if they aren't at least majorly embarrassed by what happened then there's no hope for F1 I'm afraid.
 
This is how I see it. Liverpool play Man U last game of the season , both need to win for the title.
In the 93rd minute ( the 4th official having indicated 4 mins of added time) and the game 0-0. Mo Salah picks the ball up in his hands in his own box, runs the full length of the field ( throwing himself to the floor several times on the way obvs), before chucking it past De Gea and the ref gives it, thereby handing Liverpool the title.
Man U appeal saying every rule in the book has been broken. The FA dismiss the appeal saying the game was shit for everyone in the stadium and the millions watching at home, so the rules don't matter.
Don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of the all, other than only two teams have a chance of winning and the ones who change their tyres quicker usually win.
 
Any driver winning the championship 7 out of 8 years is bad for the brand (this goes equally for football teams). Engagement drops measurably when a single team or sportsman dominates a sport.

World Rally had a similar problem with Sebastian Loeb some years ago and effectively begged him to leave the sport after he won 9 in a row. What they hadn't bargained for was his former team-mate going on to win the next 6 in a row. It almost killed the sport.

I fully believe that there has been pressure on Masi this season, first to favour Lewis to close the championship gap (Silverstone etc.) and later to favour Veratappen.
 
Cheesyleps said:
Any driver winning the championship 7 out of 8 years is bad for the brand (this goes equally for football teams). Engagement drops measurably when a single team or sportsman dominates a sport.

World Rally had a similar problem with Sebastian Loeb some years ago and effectively begged him to leave the sport after he won 9 in a row. What they hadn't bargained for was his former team-mate going on to win the next 6 in a row. It almost killed the sport.

I fully believe that there has been pressure on Masi this season, first to favour Lewis to close the championship gap (Silverstone etc.) and later to favour Veratappen.
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I'm not sure it's down to Loeb or Ogier in WRC, Makinen won four in a row around the turn of the century and it was still massively popular, the manufacturers pulling out has killed it, only three left, it's very very boring because of that.
 
I now fully expect an over haul of the procedures around the safety car scenario before next season. I’ve never really understood the need for both the virtual safety car and the full safety car. The virtual safety car is the fairer system as the drivers don’t lose any advantage they have gained on track. I think most incidents can be cleared safely whilst the cars are running round the track at the reduced speed, anything very serious they can still red flag the race and line them up in the pits for a restart. I just don’t see the need for the full safety car anymore. I’d also suggest that pit stops were banned whilst the virtual safety car is in operation to stop any one gaining an advantage. They’re not big changes to implement and would have made a big difference to several of the more contentious scenarios over this last season.
 
In the long run probably the best thing to happen to Hamilton. The British public have always had mixed feelings about him but the events of today might change that.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
I'm not sure it's down to Loeb or Ogier in WRC, Makinen won four in a row around the turn of the century and it was still massively popular, the manufacturers pulling out has killed it, only three left, it's very very boring because of that.
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Somewhat chicken and egg I feel. The manufacturers started dropping when Loeb and Citroën were dominating.

4 years is manageable. 9 is a killer.

This would have been 7 from 8 for Lewis, and 8 from 8 for Mercedes. How many people have you heard saying 'I used to love F1, but...'

There was somebody in this thread who specifically referenced Schumacher's dominance.
 
That is exactly the problem with the decision. It gave them the crazy news grabbing finish they presumably wanted, but it also lost the sport all credibility. Everyone, most people anyway, just thinks F1 is utter nonsense, after that. Potential new fans all lost in a moment. And some old fans too I bet. It's laughable.
 
Cheesyleps said:
Somewhat chicken and egg I feel. The manufacturers started dropping when Loeb and Citroën were dominating.

4 years is manageable. 9 is a killer.

This would have been 7 from 8 for Lewis, and 8 from 8 for Mercedes. How many people have you heard saying 'I used to love F1, but...'

There was somebody in this thread who specifically referenced Schumacher's dominance.
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F1 has never been more popular though, Hamilton winning today wouldn't have changed that.
 
I never have watched F1 despite plenty of people I know being bang into it.

I watched Today’s race

I won’t be watching F1 ever again

I don’t understand how LH was 100% going to win but a random crash not involving him or Max leads from that situation to a certain victory for Max

and just to be clear I wasn't bothered who won at all

just a joke spectacle to me tbh

Ill stick to real Sports
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
F1 has never been more popular though, Hamilton winning today wouldn't have changed that.
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There must be loads like me who think it's utterly boring, but were lured in by the big end to the season. After today I'm thinking if today's race is anything to go by, the whole thing was a setup for the big finish. It's lost any credibility it had with me and I won't be back.
 
rememberlesshannon said:
There must be loads like me who think it's utterly boring, but were lured in by the big end to the season. After today I'm thinking if today's race is anything to go by, the whole thing was a setup for the big finish. It's lost any credibility it had with me and I won't be back.
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Spot on…new fans will not have been gained by that unfathomable shitshow
 
If the F1 referree wanted to have a fair race, he should have told hamilton to pit clear the track and him coming out in 2nd place on about 2 laps younger tyres, then go for it!
Not 36 laps difference in tyres!
ABSOLUTE JOKE
 
Let's be fair and as I say, I nothing of the ins ad outs of it all, BUT.
Am I wrong or did the minute the race controller call a 1 lap race, he knew exactly who would win ?
And they talk about match fixing cricket !
Formula 1 needed a new champion in the eyes of the FAI, but they f'd up royally.
 
rememberlesshannon said:
Let's be fair and as I say, I nothing of the ins ad outs of it all, BUT.
Am I wrong or did the minute the race controller call a 1 lap race, he knew exactly who would win ?
And they talk about match fixing cricket !
Formula 1 needed a new champion in the eyes of the FAI, but they f'd up royally.
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Yes once the race controller cleared the other cars out of the way and made it a one lap race he had Crowned Max the world champion.
 
rememberlesshannon said:
Let's be fair and as I say, I nothing of the ins ad outs of it all, BUT.
Am I wrong or did the minute the race controller call a 1 lap race, he knew exactly who would win ?
And they talk about match fixing cricket !
Formula 1 needed a new champion in the eyes of the FAI, but they f'd up royally.
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Pretty much, unless Verstappen went off trying to overtake, there was no way Lewis could keep him behind on shot tyres.
 
rememberlesshannon said:
There must be loads like me who think it's utterly boring, but were lured in by the big end to the season. After today I'm thinking if today's race is anything to go by, the whole thing was a setup for the big finish. It's lost any credibility it had with me and I won't be back.
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Professional wrestling is less staged than that. Complete joke.
 
Wizaard said:
Professional wrestling is less staged than that. Complete joke.
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I think the best love I read on this was at least with WWE you know it's fixed.

The sport was sacrificed on the alter of entertainment today and I'm not sure how it recovers in the eyes of sports fans.
 
The thing I keep hearing from the F1 media and experts is Verstappen is a worthy champion...but he's not! He didn't get over the line without manufactured help and Hamilton should have won. F1 is a bubble and today a lot of fresh new eyes were looking at it and it's been exposed badly .
 
I personally think they misunderstand what viewers want. Yes they want entertainment, but above all they want a fair competition otherwise you never get to see who really is the best. In sport, fairness should never be sacrificed for a spectacle, ever. The FIA have been dying to have a big showdown in the final in Abu Dhabi for a while - that's why they decided to double the points there once. Today they went way too far with that desire and sacrificed their integrity for it.

As mentioned above, the problem with what happened isn't just that the rules weren't followed, it's that they weren't followed with the absolute knowledge that the decision would result in a different world champion than if they were followed. It was plain wrong - Verstappen fans won't admit this but they know full well this is a hollow victory. It makes it difficult to follow a sport where the champion can be decided in a directors box rather than by the competitors on the track. You can't just decide to only follow rules when it suits, it's that simple.
 
For my money this nonsense of a decision is right up there with the welter of iffy penaties this weekend in the prem, particularly (surprise surprise) benefitting the usual suspects. Producing the results that the powers that be demand. Rudiger, third biggest diver in football after Salah and Sterling. It's all bollocks.
 
If they wanted a fair race after the crash they should have shown a red flag, allowing all cars to pit and change tyres. Whilst Verstappen would have been closer to Hamilton it would have been a fair race on the same tyres for 3 or 4 laps. Instead we got an arbitrary decision by the race director (influenced by the Red Bull team on the mic to him) which was not in accordance with the normal safety car rules and gave one driver (Verstappen) an unfair advantage. On that basis the race director could just ignore any rules and choose who wins
 
Seasider3610 said:
Kurt convince me how an 11 second lead can turn out with both cars starting level with one lap to go?

How is that fair and square 😩
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Yeah, pretty easily able to tell you. It’s F1. Crashes happen. The casuals showing themselves up today. Watch drive to survive. Unfair shit happens all the time.

Like Hamilton throwing Max into a wall at Silverstone at 150 MPH.

Like Max turning in on Hamilton and putting his car on top of him.

It. Is. Racing.
 
20togo said:
the race director fucked up and it cost Hamilton the race. I reckon Red Bull know that. So the solution is for the FIA to offer Verstappen a share of the title. Failure to accept it means result of race over-turned.
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really stupid one tbh. And the most damaging for the sport.
 
bfcpete said:
If they wanted a fair race after the crash they should have shown a red flag, allowing all cars to pit and change tyres. Whilst Verstappen would have been closer to Hamilton it would have been a fair race on the same tyres for 3 or 4 laps. Instead we got an arbitrary decision by the race director (influenced by the Red Bull team on the mic to him) which was not in accordance with the normal safety car rules and gave one driver (Verstappen) an unfair advantage. On that basis the race director could just ignore any rules and choose who wins
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It didn’t need a red flag. As it was easy to clear.

A red flag is only required if the barriers or some large work is required which blocks the track. Taking a car away with a tractor isn’t a red flag reason.

The amount of people commenting with such strong opinions without watching F1 ever is funny.
 
Don't worry most of those occasional watchers wont be watching again. What's the point?
I listened on the radio and even the commentators had no idea what was going on either.
 
I don't watch it or understand it so can somebody confirm that it's not actually the guys in the pits that control the computers where the "drivers" sit.
A bit like scalextric. 🙄
 
SeasideKurt said:
It didn’t need a red flag. As it was easy to clear.

A red flag is only required if the barriers or some large work is required which blocks the track. Taking a car away with a tractor isn’t a red flag reason.

The amount of people commenting with such strong opinions without watching F1 ever is funny.
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Very interesting gate keeping going on here to defend the indefensible, when in the history of F1 have only an arbitrary number of lapped cars been able to unlap themselves?
 
SeasideKurt said:
Yeah, pretty easily able to tell you. It’s F1. Crashes happen. The casuals showing themselves up today. Watch drive to survive. Unfair shit happens all the time.

Like Hamilton throwing Max into a wall at Silverstone at 150 MPH.

Like Max turning in on Hamilton and putting his car on top of him.

It. Is. Racing.
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I’m not sure anyone’s showing themselves up, Kurt, they’re just after clarification of the rules (rules that Mercedes would have been taking into account after the last crash, but were ignored at the whim of the race director).
If the pundits, drivers, and former drivers are still debating the incident (with most of them seemingly saying it was a cock-up), you can hardly expect the casual observer to have a clue about what went on.
 
BWseasider said:
Very interesting gate keeping going on here to defend the indefensible, when in the history of F1 have only an arbitrary number of lapped cars been able to unlap themselves?
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Pretty obvious why? It's not indefensible. The track was clear and there was one lap remaining.

If they ended it under the safety car, people would be going mental.

Hamilton had numerous chances to change his, tyres, he didn't knowing full well a safety car would change things. Had it happened 3 or 4 laps earlier no one would be saying anything.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Regardless of the result at least those Hamilton haters now have to wonder just what they were hating.

I couldn't have handled myself like Lewis did after the race.
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He seems a bit of a changed man to be honest. He'll have been next level upset but handled himself like a Champion. He lost the Championship earlier in the season in reality. He should have been miles ahead of Max.
 
johnnyb said:
For anyone who says it was much better that the race was ended in a one lap duel, than behind the safety car, they are talking crap!!

As soon as the safety car pulled in, there was only going to be one winner - they may as well have handed it the Championship to Max at that point!! I'm not a big gambler but If I'd got £10,000 in my Befair Account at the start of the last lap. it would have all gone on Verstappen to win without hestitation (rather than the £30 I did manage to put on).

The argument as well that the Race Director can decide what he wants to do, even if it's gainst the rules is unbelieveable.

F1 is now a laughing stock!!
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Good old Paddy Power have paid out on both drivers to win The Drivers Championship and on both drivers winning yesterdays race... ( t & c apply)
 
Johnno said:
I’m not sure anyone’s showing themselves up, Kurt, they’re just after clarification of the rules (rules that Mercedes would have been taking into account after the last crash, but were ignored at the whim of the race director).
If the pundits, drivers, and former drivers are still debating the incident (with most of them seemingly saying it was a cock-up), you can hardly expect the casual observer to have a clue about what went on.
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Well, they aren't going to just pack up and go home are they? There are talking points and discussions.

Had it ended under a safety car, people would have been moaning about that too. Max gambled and this time it paid off. Lewis has gambled in other scenarios and become extremely lucky too.
 
SeasideKurt said:
Yeah, pretty easily able to tell you. It’s F1. Crashes happen. The casuals showing themselves up today. Watch drive to survive. Unfair shit happens all the time.

Like Hamilton throwing Max into a wall at Silverstone at 150 MPH.

Like Max turning in on Hamilton and putting his car on top of him.

It. Is. Racing.
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You know as well as I do that the Silverstone crash being Hamilton's fault is very debatable.

You also know as well as I do that the safety car rules weren't followed to make it an 'exciting finish'.

And you're well aware that had this not been the title decider the race would have finished behind the safety car.
 
SeasideKurt said:
Well, they aren't going to just pack up and go home are they? There are talking points and discussions.

Had it ended under a safety car, people would have been moaning about that too. Max gambled and this time it paid off. Lewis has gambled in other scenarios and become extremely lucky too.
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Max didn't gamble, they had to do the opposite of Mercedes, as soon as Lewis went past the pits that was their decision made, if Lewis had dived in RB would have stayed out.
 
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