Pro-Palestine march set for Armistice day

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Mexboroseasider said:
To be honest I can’t see your logic.

A attacks B.

That means B is entitled to attack C (C standing for Children).

But D isn’t allowed to point out that B attacking C is wrong. Unless D caveats every statement with “But don’t forget A attacked B first”.

Everyone knows A attacked B first. Why does it have to be repeated everytime?
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No need for A B C’s here Hamas terrorists scum attacked innocent men women children and babies many they beheaded.

Just say it in plain English. 👍
 
20togo said:
do shut the fuck up. As I said in my previous post, it's not my decision that sporting events take place on this weekend. They've been happening since i was kid and first started going football matches over 60 years ago, Absolutely nothing to do with me any decision made on this and if it was a case that no events had taken place then that's the way I would have been brought up to think. What's so difficult to grasp about that and that this weekend is where millions of people come together to pay their respects. You make it sound a bad thing with your illogical nonsense.

I've made my views very clear, And guess what. It's a view shared by millions of others in this country! Just as yours are. You don't seem to be able to recognise that when it comes to your god comment you clown.
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Calm down
There is no need to swear at someone because they have a different opinion to your own.

We live in a free country, we can hold different views and we can write them on message boards if we want to.

That is the freedom that we are all lucky to have.

And just like the march you want to close down views that you don't agree with ['shut the fuck up']. I am starting to wonder if you actually understand what freedom means.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Yes I know it’s Saturday but it’s still the weekend of armistice weekend.
And do you seriously think it’s going to be peaceful? Over a million people expected to turn up and you think everyone is going to March peacefully through the streets?
And why this particular weekend? Why not the weekend after or any weekend after that? Can you not understand why it’s an issue holding it this weekend?
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I think the kids in Gaza are thinkng why are you bombing me today, just stop!
There is no need for the march to go anywhere near the Cenotaph, Londons a big place. There is no need for Tommy Robinson to do some attention seeking, London has a police force.
Let's not forget that Armistice Day is about the cessation of killing and maiming in world war 1, I hope this can be remembered peacefully and respectfully. I also hope that Israel realise that many people have sympathy for what happened on October the 7th but the killing of civilians in Gaza has to stop.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
No need for A B C’s here Hamas terrorists scum attacked innocent men women children and babies many they beheaded.

Just say it in plain English. 👍
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I agree. And have never said anything different.

But as you like plain English.

After Hamas slaughtered innocent men women and children, Netanyahu and his government did the same. Beheading and dismembering babies with bombs and artillery shells.

How can any of that be right?

I’m happy to condemn both sides. Are you?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
So I’m clear…..

It’s ok to have footy matches on this weekend, even though people should actually be remembering the fallen of the two world wars, because it’s always happened.

But it’d be very wrong to have a peace March on the same weekend, because it’s new.

Oh and violence could happen at either event. But it’s only violence occurring around the peace march that’s beyond the pale. Even if caused by football hooligans (who should actually be watching football).

Well yes. That all makes perfect sense.
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yes, yes but not for that reason., and yes it could but this is a weekend where the focus should be on what happened in the past and all the people lost. Did you actually give me any valid reason why the event couldn't take place next weekend.
 
20togo said:
yes, yes but not for that reason., and yes it could but this is a weekend where the focus should be on what happened in the past and all the people lost. Did you actually give me any valid reason why the event couldn't take place next weekend.
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Because you and Jaffa would still object.

You’d just use different reasons.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Calm down
There is no need to swear at someone because they have a different opinion to your own.

We live in a free country, we can hold different views and we can write them on message boards if we want to.

That is the freedom that we are all lucky to have.

And just like the march you want to close down views that you don't agree with ['shut the fuck up']. I am starting to wonder if you actually understand what freedom means.
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when you come out with comments like me thinking I'm god then you are gonna get a reaction. It had nothing to do with different opinions. And as i said just previously there millions around the country who share my view just as i acknowledged there are millions who share yours too. Perhaps you missed that part of my post.
 
20togo said:
making things up I see. Happy to play your silly games as long as you so go for it.
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Well I suppose we’ll see the weekend after next. When there’s another peace march. And if I’m right, you and Jaffa will be moaning like you were last weekend.

Assuming we haven’t had a ceasefire before then.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I agree. And have never said anything different.

But as you like plain English.

After Hamas slaughtered innocent men women and children, Netanyahu and his government did the same. Beheading and dismembering babies with bombs and artillery shells.

How can any of that be right?

I’m happy to condemn both sides. Are you?
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Every country has the right to defend itself and indeed retaliate for such a massacre of its people and being a terrorist organisation Israel have every right to strive to eliminate each and every one of the Hamas terrorists no matter how long it takes.

I do agree the constant bombing of Gaza should now stop but the ground assault should continue till Hamas are no more.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I agree. And have never said anything different.

But as you like plain English.

After Hamas slaughtered innocent men women and children, Netanyahu and his government did the same. Beheading and dismembering babies with bombs and artillery shells.

How can any of that be right?

I’m happy to condemn both sides. Are you?
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in my view there's a massive difference between dropping a bomb on some-one from a great height as opposed to fighters going ruthlessly from house to house and deliberately killing everyone they came across. After all didn't we drop many bombs on German cities no doubt killing many innocent civilians as did the Germans to us. Was there outrage back then? Somehow that seems far less personal if you can grasp the point i'm trying to make.

i said very early in this war that Israel had to adopt a heavy handed approach so it's no surprise to me they've done that. I've also said there could be more sinister reasons than just loss of life, ie Israel forcing Gazan's out of their homeland never to return although that has been denied today. We'll see on that one. So yep, even though my feelings lean one way more than the other on the whole i think i've been as balanced as i could be. But let's not lose sight of the fact that war is brutal as it was in WW1 and WW2 and once Hamas did what they did on 7/10 it was inevitable there would be massive repercussions, Like I said Israel are fighting for their very existence so I can see why it seems to be an "Us or Them" approach.

And yes there are many pictures or scenes which are a difficult watch. But the march should still not take place this weekend.
 
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Not much to add to what has been said by those far more knowledgeable on this subject.
Other than, I found it disturbing that Biden was on a plane ASAP to "stand with Isreal" and Sunak followed with " I hope you win" and now everyone is begging for a ceasefire.
 
20togo said:
in my view there's a massive difference between dropping a bomb on some-one from a great height as opposed to fighters going ruthlessly from house to house and deliberately killing everyone they came across. After all didn't we drop many bombs on German cities no doubt killing many innocent civilians as did the Germans to us. Was there outrage back then? Somehow that seems far less personal if you can grasp the point i'm trying to make.

i said very early in this war that Israel had to adopt a heavy handed approach so it's no surprise to me they've done that. I've also said there could be more sinister reasons than just loss of life, ie Israel forcing Gazan's out of their homeland never to return although that has been denied today. We'll see on that one. So yep, even though my feelings lean one way more than the other on the whole i think i've been as balanced as i could be. But let's not lose sight of the fact that war is brutal as it was in WW1 and WW2 and once Hamas did what they did on 7/10 it was inevitable there would be massive repercussions, Like I said Israel are fighting for their very existence so I can see why it seems to be an "Us or Them" approach.

And yes there are many pictures or scenes which are a difficult watch. But the march should still not take place this weekend.
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Four comments and then I’m out for this evening.

Yes. I think it’s easier for the killer depending on the method of killing. And yes, pressing a button makes the deaths more remote than face to face. But I was talking about the outcome for the dead children. They are still mutilated and dead regardless of the method employed.

As for bombing on WW2, actually there was a lot of criticism of Bomber Harris at the time and certainly after the war, for instance for the levelling of Dresden. I don’t suppose Germans criticising the Blitz would have lasted very long.

I agree war is nasty and brutal. But arguing that the death of the innocent is inevitable is also close to using the “collateral damage” excuse to justify disproportionate action.

Finally on the self defence argument. Despite the declared aims of some Arabs re the destruction of Israel, I don’t think it’s currently fighting for its existence as it was in, say, 1948 or during the Yom Kippur war. The weapons imbalance is simply too great for Hamas or Hezbollah to destroy Israel as a nation state. And self defence has to be proportionate. If it isn’t, and the laws of war are not complied with, then individual Israelis could face war crimes charges. And Israel loses the moral high ground.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Four comments and then I’m out for this evening.

Yes. I think it’s easier for the killer depending on the method of killing. And yes, pressing a button makes the deaths more remote than face to face. But I was talking about the outcome for the dead children. They are still mutilated and dead regardless of the method employed.

As for bombing on WW2, actually there was a lot of criticism of Bomber Harris at the time and certainly after the war, for instance for the levelling of Dresden. I don’t suppose Germans criticising the Blitz would have lasted very long.

I agree war is nasty and brutal. But arguing that the death of the innocent is inevitable is also close to using the “collateral damage” excuse to justify disproportionate action.

Finally on the self defence argument. Despite the declared aims of some Arabs re the destruction of Israel, I don’t think it’s currently fighting for its existence as it was in, say, 1948 or during the Yom Kippur war. The weapons imbalance is simply too great for Hamas or Hezbollah to destroy Israel as a nation state. And self defence has to be proportionate. If it isn’t, and the laws of war are not complied with, then individual Israelis could face war crimes charges. And Israel loses the moral high ground.
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but the difference on the first point is the fear of actually seeing what is about to happen. That split few seconds of knowing. And that's massively understating it.

The term collateral damage is sadly a reflection of what is happening, The argument for disproportionate action i have mixed feelings on. I try to understand what they are doing and i sort of get it. What i struggle with is that they are making too many excuses about some of their targets. ie move south to be safe and yet bombs still drop on the south. I don't like that. But I get the idea of first bombing Hamas targets in Gaza City which is then likely to become urban warfare. But that is conflicted by the fact it's pretty obvious Hamas are using civilians to protect themselves and then the vicious circle of Israel saying they are legit targets. And Hamas saying the number of deaths are all down to Israel. I don't buy into that. That's all part of the propaganda war. I'm sorry but I can't buy into the fact that able bodied innocent civilians couldn't have headed south. Loosely speaking only those physically unable to do so have a valid excuse for not doing so and Israeli troops have and need under international law a duty to make sure they are not harmed. I think that covers your final point.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
If I was like you I would keep going on about 'Armistice weekend' because it's not actually a thing - you have just made it up because it fits in with your argument. And if I was like you I'd probably throw in an accusation of hypocrisy for good measure - for instance is it 'crass' to make stuff up about a fictional 'Armistice weekend' to try to win an argument online?
It is certainly not a reason to have the march banned, the march starts at 12.45 well after the minutes silence. What exactly do you object to? Should all football matches be banned, pubs closed, public transport halted because it is 11th November? It doesn't stack up.
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Behave EBSN.

It's not about whether "Armistance weekend" is a thing or not.

We have a traditional period of rememberence in this country on or around the 11th November every year as you well know.
 
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Macseasider said:
Not looking good for Saturday in London.

Suella Braverman is fully responsible for stoking the flames of right wing hatred.

The wonderful people of our emergency services are going to have to deal with this. Any blood will be on her vile hands.
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Unfortunately that's what she wants!
"Home secretary, the arsonist pitting A against B" Baroness Warsi.
Just heard an ex police chief commissioner on the radio 2 news slating Braverman. Guess him, Warsi, Sir Mark Rowley and Nichoas Soames are loony lefties who hate this country....
 
Wizaard said:
I was one of the Pool fans paying full respects in silence at Bromley. Bizarrely, their fans started clapping after about 10 seconds into the minute's silence. Very odd.
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They also broke it near the end by chanting come on Bromley. I was quite shocked by that.
 
Cuthbert said:
Braverman is an ant British extremist; she is clearly inciting trouble from extreme right wing. She also verges on being anti Muslim
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Without commenting on Braverman and her own personal beliefs, I think it is perfectly possible to disagree with or dislike some of the barbaric nonsense of muslims without being far right.

Their traditions and beliefs are not just compatible with good honest British values, whether or not that it is a good thing is up to yourself.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Without commenting on Braverman and her own personal beliefs, I think it is perfectly possible to disagree with or dislike some of the barbaric nonsense of muslims without being far right.

Their traditions and beliefs are not just compatible with good honest British values, whether or not that it is a good thing is up to yourself.
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💯 Nail on head.

All this talk about Braverman being a racist a Nazi and/or a Muslim hater is just utter tripe.

Embarrassing for people to even suggest it.

Then again it is AVFTT at its finest.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
No need for A B C’s here Hamas terrorists scum attacked innocent men women children and babies many they beheaded.

Just say it in plain English. 👍
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I'd like to bet Hamas don't represent the majority of decent people who are now being killed, maimed & displaced because of their actions. A ceasefire & some peace sort of settlement is the only right thing to pursue. Yes I can see why Israel are angry too. When will we stop killing each other, it's frankly pathetic & embarrassing.
 
Sooty59 said:
I'd like to bet Hamas don't represent the majority of decent people who are now being killed, maimed & displaced because of their actions. A ceasefire & some peace sort of settlement is the only right thing to pursue. Yes I can see why Israel are angry too. When will we stop killing each other, it's frankly pathetic & embarrassing.
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You're right, i bet they don't represent the majority of DECENT people. However, a survey of the people of Gaza and the West Bank conducted by the Palestinian Authority in March 2023 shows that a significant majority of 58% are in favour of an armed struggle. And sadly that is what they've got and brought on by themselves. To counter-act that and in the interest of balance I'd imagine children don't get a vote so it's sad that so many children have been killed. That's the biggest tragedy.
 
20togo said:
You're right, i bet they don't represent the majority of DECENT people. However, a survey of the people of Gaza and the West Bank conducted by the Palestinian Authority in March 2023 shows that a significant majority of 58% are in favour of an armed struggle. And sadly that is what they've got and brought on by themselves. To counter-act that and in the interest of balance I'd imagine children don't get a vote so it's sad that so many children have been killed. That's the biggest tragedy.
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If those figures are correct I still feel sorry for the 42%. It beggars belief what it must be like trying to survive amongst that carnage.
 
No comment on the rights and wrongs but it seems absolutely primed for violence this weekend. The Discord and Snapchat for the FLA should be taken with a shovel of salt...but if even 10% follow through with what they're planning...not good. Hopefully the ceasefire protesters are kept well away from the cenotaph and tube stations.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
💯 Nail on head.

All this talk about Braverman being a racist a Nazi and/or a Muslim hater is just utter tripe.

Embarrassing for people to even suggest it.

Then again it is AVFTT at its finest.
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Evidently written by someone who is no true Muslim friends or family?
 
Cuthbert said:
Evidently written by someone who is no true Muslim friends or family?
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what's your point? I can honestly say in my daily life, I don't know a black person, a muslim, a Jew or a person of any other race, creed or colour. Does that brand me as racist, anti semite or any other tag you can come up with? My friends and family are just people I know. I don't see them as anything other than just another person. Your post is disgusting with you trying to pin labels on someone.
 
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20togo said:
Was it a historical event? Yes it was! History is history be it good or bad. Remember what this weekend is about where millions of lives were lost. Lest you forget. Seems plenty perhaps like yourself want to place more importance on having the march this weekend rather than events of the past. Can you justify the difference between having it this weekend rather than next. Any genuine valid reasons why it has to be this specific weekend?
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Once again, you have completely misrepresented my thoughts through your personal prejudices.

There have been peace marches for a month, and it's the day before Remembrance Sunday, away from the Cenotaph. It's a continuation. Keep marching until there is peace.

The whole point of Remembrance Sunday is to remember the sacrifice in gaining peace and the freedoms we now have, including the right to protest. Surely a peace march is in the spirit of what the sacrifices were all.about, on more than one level?

Opposing it is the denial of those hard won rights.

I will be observing a minute's silence at Bolton, as I did at Bromley, and I'll be attending two separate Sunday events in our area, so don't go telling me what I prefer, or whether I respect the occasion.

You don't care anyway, because you have repeatedly said you have no interest in politics. Leave it to those who do.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
No need for A B C’s here Hamas terrorists scum attacked innocent men women children and babies many they beheaded.

Just say it in plain English. 👍
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And to date, nearly 5,000 Gazan children have died.

Proportionate response?

Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
Wizaard said:
And to date, nearly 5,000 Gazan children have died.

Proportionate response?

Two wrongs don't make a right.
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I never said it did.

But you just have to be man enough to look through all the killings and remember who started all this and it wasn’t Israel.

Those 5,000 children you mention would all be alive today had it not been for Hamas murdering scum carrying out those atrocities on 07/10/23.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I never said it did.

But you just have to be man enough to look through all the killings and remember who started all this and it wasn’t Israel.

Those 5,000 children you mention would all be alive today had it not been for Hamas murdering scum carrying out those atrocities on 07/10/23.
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You started it is the language of the playground. They both need to stop it.
 
@Cuthbert
That is not my quote. You've manufactured that or I was quoting some-one else. Please link me to the thread where that is. I've done a few key word/phrases under my user name and nothing has come up.
I have now reported your post.
 
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Wizaard said:
Once again, you have completely misrepresented my thoughts through your personal prejudices.

There have been peace marches for a month, and it's the day before Remembrance Sunday, away from the Cenotaph. It's a continuation. Keep marching until there is peace.

The whole point of Remembrance Sunday is to remember the sacrifice in gaining peace and the freedoms we now have, including the right to protest. Surely a peace march is in the spirit of what the sacrifices were all.about, on more than one level?

Opposing it is the denial of those hard won rights.

I will be observing a minute's silence at Bolton, as I did at Bromley, and I'll be attending two separate Sunday events in our area, so don't go telling me what I prefer, or whether I respect the occasion.

You don't care anyway, because you have repeatedly said you have no interest in politics. Leave it to those who do.
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the country would be in a bad place if it was left to the likes of you and others on here then. 😉
 
Wizaard said:
There have been peace marches for a month, and it's the day before Remembrance Sunday, away from the Cenotaph. It's a continuation. Keep marching until there is peace.
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Is marching going to bring peace then? How does that work? Maybe if all those gave a fiver to help the victims in Gaza instead of marching, they would achieve something tangible.
 
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Tangerinemoss said:
Does it not occur to you that if it really is a million person march, that is significant in a democracy? And the answer to your other question is that it was last weekend, the mainstream media underreported it, and it is planned for the following weekend, if there has not been a ceasefire by then.

Very woke thing to ban a march with which you don't agree. Nowhere near the Cenotaph, a march expresssing support for stopping violence on ALL sides in Israel / Gaza, I think our forebears who gave their lives to stop violence could sign on to that.
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Ohhhh, so they’re marching to stop violence on both sides? I’ll wait for you to post the pictures of the Israel flags in the march, then.
 
Wizaard said:
It brings pressure to bear that the Government needs to do something.

But you knew that. If they all sent a fiver you'd be the first to accuse them of funding terrorism.
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I said this along time back just after this war started. It doesn't matter what the Gov't say or any other tom dick or harry who think they are important or full of their own self importance, Israel and Hamas will do what they think/believe is right for them. And a million people marching through the streets of London won't change that.
 
20togo said:
I said this along time back just after this war started. It doesn't matter what the Gov't say or any other tom dick or harry who think they are important or full of their own self importance, Israel and Hamas will do what they think/believe is right for them. And a million people marching through the streets of London won't change that.
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Maybe not, but a million people will have made their feelings known.

International pressure has seen Israel concede the daily pauses.

Small steps, but in the right direction.
 
Wizaard said:
You started it is the language of the playground. They both need to stop it.
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It’s hardly playground stuff though is it talking about 5,000 children losing their lives?
And once again I know I keep repeating my self here but I can’t put it any other way but had Hamas not attacked Israel on 07/10/23 those 5,000 children and the 5,000 other civilians would still be alive today FACT.
 
Wizaard said:
Maybe not, but a million people will have made their feelings known.

International pressure has seen Israel concede the daily pauses.

Small steps, but in the right direction.
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but not you because you'll be at Bolton eh? 😉

Some things are more important than football unless it suits it not to be.
 
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