Pro-Palestine march set for Armistice day

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Shandypants said:
Stop listening to Braverman. The official march is not going past the cenotaph FFS....
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I've not listened to or read Bravermans comments at all . Not interested in them. Did i say it was going past the Cenotaph? NO i did not. I simply pointed out that EBSN stated that people had the right to protest when and wherever they want so I simply asked him if that protest happened to be going past the Cenotaph this sunday at 11 am by his own words it wouldn't be a problem.
 
tommytwojags said:
Free Palestine graffiti all over the Manchester cenotaph today. Clearly they have no interest in a respectful protest. Disgusting behaviour.
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Happened in Rochdale too ! Yet some on here seems to think there won't be a problem this saturday.
 
20togo said:
I've not listened to or read Bravermans comments at all . Not interested in them. Did i say it was going past the Cenotaph? NO i did not. I simply pointed out that EBSN stated that people had the right to protest when and wherever they want so I simply asked him if that protest happened to be going past the Cenotaph this sunday at 11 am by his own words it wouldn't be a problem.
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It's Saturday and nowhere near, so the point is once again, irrelevant.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
You are making stuff up again.
The planned march is not on Sunday, is not at 11am and does not go anywhere near the cenotaph.
If these things were different I may well have a different view on it and so might the authorities.

Your Armistice weekend argument doesn't stack up
Your Threat of violence argument doesn't stack up

Both of these arguments could be used against many of the activities that you approve of taking place this weekend.
Freedom of speech doesn't just mean allowing stuff that you agree with.
Anyway I'm out. It's pointless.
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I'm asking you a hypothetical question but you don't seem to want to answer. That question was based on what YOU said about peoples rights to protest whenever and wherever. But hey, I'll take it that if "things were different" ie it did happen to be taking place on sunday past the cenotaph then you'd say it would be wrong. Which kinda defeats your point about the right to protest whenever and whereever doesn't it?

And violence doesn't have to be just physical. See what's happened in Manchester and Rochdale. And you think this match is gonna be entirely peaceful! I hope it is but think your in Cloud cuckoo land if you think it will.
 
...and in Leigh too. These are protesters defacing our war memorials but hey maybe you think it's fine because they've a right to protest wherever and whenever.
 
20togo said:
I'm asking you a hypothetical question but you don't seem to want to answer. That question was based on what YOU said about peoples rights to protest whenever and wherever. But hey, I'll take it that if "things were different" ie it did happen to be taking place on sunday past the cenotaph then you'd say it would be wrong. Which kinda defeats your point about the right to protest whenever and whereever doesn't it?

And violence doesn't have to be just physical. See what's happened in Manchester and Rochdale. And you think this match is gonna be entirely peaceful! I hope it is but think your in Cloud cuckoo land if you think it will.
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There's a massive parade in remembrance of the nation's war dead going down Whitehall on Sunday. Of course there can't be another march at the same time in the same place. That's just stupid hypothesising

You know that.
 
20togo said:
I'm asking you a hypothetical question but you don't seem to want to answer. That question was based on what YOU said about peoples rights to protest whenever and wherever. But hey, I'll take it that if "things were different" ie it did happen to be taking place on sunday past the cenotaph then you'd say it would be wrong. Which kinda defeats your point about the right to protest whenever and whereever doesn't it?

And violence doesn't have to be just physical. See what's happened in Manchester and Rochdale. And you think this match is gonna be entirely peaceful! I hope it is but think your in Cloud cuckoo land if you think it will.
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With Tommy stirring up the 'lads', it won't be, no.
 
Wizaard said:
There's a massive parade in remembrance of the nation's war dead going down Whitehall on Sunday. Of course there can't be another march at the same time in the same place. That's just stupid hypothesising

You know that.
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why can't there be? After all, they are going ahead with a march when they were advised not to do this weekend. I simply refer you to the 3 cenotaphs that we already know of that have been targetted. Can you justify that? Pretty sure that there's been plenty of protests about various issues where both sides have been present at the same place. Beating in mind what's already happened would I trust there to be no protest in the vicinity of the cenotaph on sunday? No I wouldn't! Would you?
 
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tommytwojags said:
Free Palestine graffiti all over the Manchester cenotaph today. Clearly they have no interest in a respectful protest. Disgusting behaviour.
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Yep seen that on the news just disgusting to even think someone would do that.

And yet some on here think this demonstration is going to pass off peacefully so they support it.

Just unbelievable.
 
Wizaard said:
These marches end in violence as a consequence of far right groups deliberately countermarching at the same time on the same route.

According to the Met, that's the biggest risk to public disorder.
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That’s utter rubbish both ends of the spectrum have extremists and l doubt the far right have desecrated the cenotaph in Rochdale overnight.
 
TangerineBayern said:
That’s utter rubbish both ends of the spectrum have extremists and l doubt the far right have desecrated the cenotaph in Rochdale overnight.
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Ive got inside information it’s Tommy Robinson and his band of RWNJ for doing all this desecration of cenotaphs.

Well someone’s going to mention it before long so might as well be first in. 🤣
 
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Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I’ve never even mentioned violence at football matches as I recall.
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You haven't, I'm pointing out your wish for the march to be cancelled because of potential violence. Every footy match has the potential for large-scale disorder. I get it you don't like the Palestinian cause.
 
Shandypants said:
You haven't, I'm pointing out your wish for the march to be cancelled because of potential violence. Every footy match has the potential for large-scale disorder. I get it you don't like the Palestinian cause.
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As I’ve already said we’ve always had football matches at remembrance weekend so I really don’t know why this subject has been brought up I really don’t.

We’ve never had protests/marches on this weekend so why are we allowing it now?
Yes I get the organisers have held them on the last few Saturdays but people would think more of them if they had this particular Saturday off what harm is it going to do to the cause?

And for the record I’ve nothing at all against the Palestinian cause I feel for the civilians especially the children caught up in all this but a few on here seem to forget who started this with the massacring 1,400 innocent civilians many who were children and babies many who were beheaded just think about that for a moment what human being would do such a despicable act? Little wonder why the IDF are being so ruthless now I’d expect most counties would react in the same way against a bunch of murdering terrorist thugs.

But yes I’m totally against this protest through the streets of London on remembrance weekend I’ve no issues with it on any other Saturday of the year after this particular one as everyone has the right to protest so long as it’s peaceful as I’ve already said previously.
 
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Jaffa_The_Hut said:
As I’ve already said we’ve always had football matches at remembrance weekend so I really don’t know why this subject has been brought up I really don’t.

We’ve never had protests/marches on this weekend so why are we allowing it now?
Yes I get the organisers have held them on the last few Saturdays but people would think more of them if they had this particular Saturday off what harm is it going to do to the cause?

And for the record I’ve nothing at all against the Palestinian cause I feel for the civilians especially the children caught up in all this but a few on here seem to forget who started this with the massacring 1,400 innocent civilians many who were children and babies many who were beheaded just think about that for a moment what human being would do such a despicable act? Little wonder why the IDF are being so ruthless now I’d expect most counties would react in the same way against a bunch of murdering terrorist thugs.

But yes I’m totally against this protest through the streets of London on remembrance weekend I’ve no issues with it on any other Saturday of the year after this particular one as everyone has the right to protest so long as it’s peaceful.
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spot on. Some here just don't get it with a total lack of respect about what this weekend means. Shame on them.
 
Shandypants said:
You haven't, I'm pointing out your wish for the march to be cancelled because of potential violence. Every footy match has the potential for large-scale disorder. I get it you don't like the Palestinian cause.
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deliberate antagonistic comment. Maybe it's because of your left wing views that I get it you don't like Israel and their right to exist. Meanwhile anti-semitic hate crime has seen a massive increase and British war memorials are being desecrated. But hey, everyone marching on saturday will be peaceful and there couldn't be any possible links to them.
 
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20togo said:
deliberate antagonistic comment. Maybe it's because of your left wing views that I get it you don't like Israel and their right to exist. Meanwhile anti-semitic hate crime has seen a massive increase and British war memorials are being desecrated. But hey, everyone marching on saturday will be peaceful and there couldn't be any possible links to them.
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I don't like Israel? Wow that's a leap....
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Agree. We remember those who died and were maimed serving to protect our values of liberty and democracy, including the freedom to protest peacefully.
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nope, because there is always an opposite side of some form to those people who are protesting ie some sort of conflict and that should not be what this weekend is about. This weekend should be about peace not anger.
 
20togo said:
nope, because there is always an opposite side of some form to those people who are protesting ie some sort of conflict and that should not be what this weekend is about.
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If I said black 20s you would say white. The values of liberty, democracy and freedom of speech were precisely what our forefathers fought for.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
If I said black 20s you would say white. The values of liberty, democracy and freedom of speech were precisely what our forefathers fought for.
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as i added to my post you seem to think this weekend should be about anger then? That's pretty shameful in my view. Plenty of other weekends in the year aren't there?
 
This year the 11 November, Armistice Day and Remembrance Sunday are the same weekend.
A pro-Palestine march is planned for Saturday. I assume the main commemoration march and ceremony is on the Sunday but there will be some commemoration at the Cenotaph on Saturday. The Palestine march goes from Marble Arch to the US Embassy in S London . It is unlikely to pass by the Cenotaph.
The Met commissioner has been bold and " liberal" allowing the Palestine march to take place. With goodwill all events can happen without trouble. But the Daily Mail and other media are trying to build it up into a conflict and fuelling anger it seems. Sunak has indicated he doesn't like Rowley' s decision and seems he wants to play politics on this. Seems hes just called in Rowley to see him , presumably to push him to cancel the march. " Tommy Robinson " trying to encourage a mob at the Cenotaph, so he would like trouble too.
Of course both marches are about peace, in broad terms , but some it seems would like it to become a battle.
 
Always tangerine said:
This year the 11 November, Armistice Day and Remembrance Sunday are the same weekend.
A pro-Palestine march is planned for Saturday. I assume the main commemoration march and ceremony is on the Sunday but there will be some commemoration at the Cenotaph on Saturday. The Palestine march goes from Marble Arch to the US Embassy in S London . It is unlikely to pass by the Cenotaph.
The Met commissioner has been bold and " liberal" allowing the Palestine march to take place. With goodwill all events can happen without trouble. But the Daily Mail and other media are trying to build it up into a conflict and fuelling anger it seems. Sunak has indicated he doesn't like Rowley' s decision and seems he wants to play politics on this. Seems hes just called in Rowley to see him , presumably to push him to cancel the march. " Tommy Robinson " trying to encourage a mob at the Cenotaph, so he would like trouble too.
Of course both marches are about peace, in broad terms , but some it seems would like it to become a battle.
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..including those who in the last day ore two have vandalised at least three cenotaphs where we remember our war dead. All in the name of peace! Yeah right.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Agree. We remember those who died and were maimed serving to protect our values of liberty and democracy, including the freedom to protest peacefully.
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I’m not disputing the right to protest, although realistically It’s highly unlikely to be entirely peaceful as it’s too emotive and feelings are understandably running very high. I just think that it could and should have been arranged to take place on a different date..
 
20togo said:
..including those who in the last day ore two have vandalised at least three cenotaphs where we remember our war dead. All in the name of peace! Yeah right.
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Could you please post links to the press articles reporting the three cenotaphs that have been defaced/vandalised? I can see plenty of reports online about the Rochdale memorial but posters on here also claim memorials in Manchester and Leigh have also been targeted and I can’t find any reference to those.

Edit to add

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Outrage after Leigh war memorial is defaced with graffiti

It has been slammed as an 'act of appalling behaviour' by local leaders
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

This is the one for Leigh. Seems to be a few weeks ago and nothing to do with this peace march. In fact it was before the 7th October attacks, so can’t be linked to Palestine, and doesn’t seem political at all.

And this is what comes up for Manchester which is clearly Rochdale.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

War memorial guarded by police after 'free Palestine' graffitied on it - updates

The Rochdale cenotaph is currently being guarded by Police Community Support Officers amid the spate of 'unacceptable' incidents
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk
 
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Mexboroseasider said:
Could you please post links to the press articles reporting the three cenotaphs that have been defaced/vandalised? I can see plenty of reports online about the Rochdale memorial but posters on here also claim memorials in Manchester and Leigh have also been targeted and I can’t find any reference to those.

Edit to add

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Outrage after Leigh war memorial is defaced with graffiti

It has been slammed as an 'act of appalling behaviour' by local leaders
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

This is the one for Leigh. Seems to be a few weeks ago and nothing to do with this peace March.

And this is what comes up for Manchester which is clearly Rochdale.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

War memorial guarded by police after 'free Palestine' graffitied on it - updates

The Rochdale cenotaph is currently being guarded by Police Community Support Officers amid the spate of 'unacceptable' incidents
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk
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i think some-one on here mentioned the M'cr one before me but as you say it seems to be the one in Rochdale [Greater M'cr] so perhaps it's only two known ones. However I find it odd that you say it has nothing to do with the peace march whilst neglecting the fact that a British war memorial has even less to do with the plight of what is happening in Palestine!
 
bfcpete said:
I do wonder if this had been a march in support of the Israeli people if it would have been banned, in case it caused a reaction. I suspect so, even if it was inconsistent.
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yep, I suspect it would but that wouldn't suit the narrative of some on here and they'd be calling for it to be banned.
 
20togo said:
i think some-one on here mentioned the M'cr one before me but as you say it seems to be the one in Rochdale [Greater M'cr] so perhaps it's only two known ones. However I find it odd that you say it has nothing to do with the peace march whilst neglecting the fact that a British war memorial has even less to do with the plight of what is happening in Palestine!
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I was just trying to verify whether what you’re claiming was true. That always important but more so at times like this.

I see you’re still claiming there are “two known ones”.

I know Rochdale was one. Where was the second as it doesn’t seem to have been in Leigh or Manchester? Leigh was weeks ago and before the current war in Palestine. The reference to Manchester seems to actually be to Rochdale.
 
20togo said:
...and in Leigh too. These are protesters defacing our war memorials but hey maybe you think it's fine because they've a right to protest wherever and whenever.
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Can you post a link to this one please 20s as I can’t seem to find it. There is one from September but that was before the dreadful attacks on 7th October and if it’s the one I’ve posted doesn’t seem political at all. More a case of a vandal putting his tag on it.

Which would mean there’s only one memorial that’s been vandalised. Not three as you claimed.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I was just trying to verify whether what you’re claiming was true. That always important but more so at times like this.

I see you’re still claiming there are “two known ones”.

I know Rochdale was one. Where was the second as it doesn’t seem to have been in Leigh or Manchester? Leigh was weeks ago and before the current war in Palestine. The reference to Manchester seems to actually be to Rochdale.
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Mexboroseasider said:
Can you post a link to this one please 20s as I can’t seem to find it. There is one from September but that was before the dreadful attacks on 7th October and if it’s the one I’ve posted doesn’t seem political at all. More a case of a vandal putting his tag on it.

Which would mean there’s only one memorial that’s been vandalised. Not three as you claimed.
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yep, my apologies. I should have done some proper checking for myself. As you say, it happened before 7/10 and seemingly had nothing to do with subsequent events. However, there's still Rochdale and that is connected to events in Israel and Gaza even though a British war memorial has nothing to do with those events and should be sacrosanct. I'm sure you'd agree. As I've said anti semitic hate crime has gone through the roof and we all know why that is.

This weekend should be left free for people to reflect and remember our war dead. Not for people to protest about events happening in another country, tragic as that is.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Can you post a link to this one please 20s as I can’t seem to find it. There is one from September but that was before the dreadful attacks on 7th October and if it’s the one I’ve posted doesn’t seem political at all. More a case of a vandal putting his tag on it.

Which would mean there’s only one memorial that’s been vandalised. Not three as you claimed.
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Culture wars innit. They'll be digging up as many historical incidents as possible, the audience they want to whip up will listen.
 
Defacing war memorials is very wrong. People who do it should be made to clean it off. However, it should not become an excuse for a barney on AVFTT. A peaceful march in protest at Israel's action in Gaza should have no connection with people who deface a cenotaph. I am quite capable of condemning one and supporting the freedom to protest at the same time.
 
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20togo said:
yep, my apologies. I should have done some proper checking for myself. As you say, it happened before 7/10 and seemingly had nothing to do with subsequent events. However, there's still Rochdale and that is connected to events in Israel and Gaza even though a British war memorial has nothing to do with those events and should be sacrosanct. I'm sure you'd agree. As I've said anti semitic hate crime has gone through the roof and we all know why that is.

This weekend should be left free for people to reflect and remember our war dead. Not for people to protest about events happening in another country, tragic as that is.
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I agree that the vandalism of the memorial in Rochdale was very wrong. A couple of teenagers have been arrested. I’m not sure whether they were responsible for the graffiti or something else but needless to say anyone responsible should be found, charged and prosecuted.

I don’t agree with your second paragraph. The overriding objective of the march is to achieve a ceasefire, hopefully as a first step to a lasting peace. I couldn’t think of anything more appropriate for this particular weekend tbh.
 
Shandypants said:
Culture wars innit. They'll be digging up as many historical incidents as possible, the audience they want to whip up will listen.
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Well so far as 20s is concerned I think he just made a mistake. Hopefully he’ll be a bit more careful in the future.

So far as Braverman is concerned, I agree it’s culture wars. And her political ambitions.
 
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